As for the suggestions to concentrate on shorter distances for a while and then take the benefits from that training into the marathon, that is something to think about. My main problem is, I have seen two or three runners attempt exactly that, including one under the guidance of my former coach, and for some reason or another the outcome was never the desired one, none of them improved significantly over the shorter distances and they did not carry significant benefits into the next marathon either. However, right now I'm indeed playing with the idea of targeting next year’s Ballycotton as my ‘A’ race, which would obviously mean no Donadea or any marathons early 2013, but I have plenty of time to make up my mind.
Due to the tender legs, all I have done since the race are a series of short, slow recovery runs. It took a few minutes to get into it each morning, but I noticed a definite improvement today. Having said that, the HR was a bit high this morning, but that might just be a once-off. I’ll keep my eye on it.
Right now, the only thing to do is to recovery from the race (well, two races), and then there won’t be much time left until Connemara; I guess that means that the real training is pretty much over by now. I’ll play it by ear and try to err on the conservative side, not exactly my strong point.
Despite there being a lot of photographers in Ballycotton, I only found one photostream with images of me. That picture is from the 3-mile point, right when I realised that I was in trouble. You can see Pat O’Shea right behind me. I’m surprised he didn’t manage to catch me again. We briefly spoke after the race, after going past I started coming back to him but eventually managed to pull clear again, apparently.Oh, and I have to say, the various race calculators are very kind. According to the age-grading calculator, my 61:13 is equivalent to a mindblowing 57:31 for a younger man, but races aren’t run in calculators, of course. Macmillan is pretty nice to me as well, allegedly I did the equivalent performance of a 17:35 5k or a 2:51:27 marathon, all of which sounds rather flattering. Looking at my race results in general, I tend to perform my best at the 10 mile/half marathon distances; I guess that’s still the case even though I have always trained for a marathon. I'd take a 2:51 marathon, but only on the road. Despite being mathematically minded, algorithms don't count.
- 5 Mar
- 5 miles, 40:46, 8:09 pace, HR 136
- 6 Mar
- 5 miles, 40:13, 8:03 pace, HR 135
- 7 Mar
- 5 miles, 40:16, 8:03 pace, HR 139
second attempt putting this in. interesting column very reflective. considering you wish to sub 5 the ultra would you need to do another weekend of back to back long runs? just curious.
ReplyDeletei see two of the runners in it are high high quality -100K world champ and another guy looking to do a sub 4!!!
one other question -would you play tevez in the starting eleven? ;-)
With my legs being sore already, a long back-to-back weekend would be counter-productive. I'll see how I feel on Saturday, but I won't run hard.
ReplyDeleteI know about those guys in Connemara. Not bad. Might be a challenge to beat them both.
As for tevez, if I had my wish he would be hanging from the highest rafters in Eastlands and I'd leave him there as a warming to others. But if Mancini plays him and he scores, especially against the rags, I'll celebrate nevertheless.
Thomas, if you want to be really kind to yourself put you age graded 57:31 into MacMillan and see what you get :)
ReplyDeleteMcMillan looks close. When I was a much younger man I ran 17:33 & 81:38. The 2:51 shows your potential at the marathon too.
ReplyDelete57:06 for me on the age grade thingy - I like it ;-)
ReplyDeleteWell done with both your Ballycotton and Donadea races. Putting in a quick 10 miler two weeks after an ultra is impressive.
ReplyDeleteClearly you overdid the pace at the start of Ballycotton, but you toughed it out which has to be good experience for your up coming ultra. Also good reminder that conservative pacing at the start of race is important.
One thing I am surprised by is just how much higher your HR is when racing 10 miles vs training. In training you rarely seem to go above 150, most of the time below 140. It would look like you gain 40bpm when going from 8min/mile to 6min/mile.
I'd love to have such low HR's when running at an easy pace, and have to settle for 150 to 160 for my easy runs. However, when racing I hit similar if a little lower when racing shorter races. I'm not yet back to hitting the speed you do, I do seem to have a less step HR gradient as speed increases - I gain about 30bpm when going from 8min/mile pace to 6min/pace.
I mention this as it my point to something you could work on in training. If you could achieve a similar gradient then you'd be hitting 6min/mile pace at just 10bpm lower than you are now.
A while back I asked what you HR at lactate threshold is, and I'd say from your result at Ballycotton it has to be around 176. Given this I'd expect you still be in your aerobic zone with a HR in the high 150's, and with a HR in low 150's you'd certainly be aerobic. Most of your running is well below this so it could be that you are being overly conservative.
Personally I work on the basis that my lactate threshold is around 175, and as long as stay below 160 I'm aerobic. My recovery runs I do at below 145, easy runs 150 to 160, and tempo runs 165 to 175. My breathing only starts to get laboured at mid 170's and above, and can quite happily chat at any HR below 170.
I say all this in the hope it help correlate things with your own experience. And if it does I might learn a bit about what my own training needs are.
Robert, that's a very details post. I'll pick up on a few things.
ReplyDeleteI think you are forgetting that I am training for an ultra, not a 10-mile race, which is why my average training effort was so much lower than 10-mile race effort. I did a few more challenging runs, like the Saturday-tempo-runs in Blackrock (e.g. 7 miles at 6:16 pace), but not a lot.
Don't make the mistake of reading too much into HR numbers. That's just one of several systems used in running. In an ultra I find the muscular system much more important than the cardiovascular one, which is why I don't take too much notice of the heart rates in training, even though I record them with every training run.
A few years ago I would have run my present training paces at HR 150. These days I do the same pace at 135, that's the progress brought on by years of constant training. The leg muscles haven't adapted at the same rate, which is why I can't simply run my training at the the same HR levels. My legs would break down.
Lactate threshold of 176 sounds about right, but is almost irrelevant for Connemara. In Ballycotton it would have been highly relevant, of course, but I'm trying to optimise my performance in my goal race, not a training race.
Hi Thomas,
ReplyDelete"A few years ago I would have run my present training paces at HR 150. These days I do the same pace at 135, that's the progress brought on by years of constant training. The leg muscles haven't adapted at the same rate, which is why I can't simply run my training at the the same HR levels. My legs would break down."
I've only got back into running in the last few years, this year is my third year of proper training, and my HR at easy is still back where you were in your earlier years. Perhaps in a few more years I see a similar adaptation as well. My weekly mileage is less than half yours so I'd might need to up this as well...
You point about your legs not adapting as fast as your legs is an interesting one, but it can't be the whole story as your HR when working a lactate threshold pace your HR is up around where it looks to historical been. I was expecting your HR to be lower at Ballycotten given your low HR at easy and marathon pace, but this didn't happen - your legs could still challenge your HR just as much as before.
As for training for Ultra vs Marathon and shorter. I'm doing the same right now, training for the Highland Fling so have concentrated much more aerobic work. My plan is to add a bit of high intensity hill work this month strength my legs and put a little extra stress on my aerobic system - this seem to work wonders for you this year so I'd be very happy if I can achieve similar results.
Good luck with recovery and final few weeks before your Ultra.